Some More Comments on Converting From Islam to Christianity

[In continuation of a topic mentioned in the entry from earlier today,[1] I’d like to post some more thoughts on religious conversion, specifically conversion from Islam to Christianity.

In July of 2010, I posted an entry with a comment I wrote about Terry Jones’ Burn A Koran Day event in response to an interview Hemant Mehta posted.[2]  In that entry, I also provided a link to a comment I wrote in response to an entry in which Mehta wrote about and recommended reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Nomad.[3]  The link to the particular comment no longer works because of his move to a different site with a different commenting system, so I’m posting my comment here.]

I still haven’t finished reading Infidel, but of what I’ve read so far, I really admire Ayaan Hirsi Ali for her bravery.  I look forward to reading Nomad soon.

Personally, I would disagree with her recommendation concerning Christianity.  I can’t really say I left Islam, because I never agreed with it from the time I was very young; I always disagreed with the discriminatory rules.  For a while, I still believed in God.  I considered converting to Christianity and, after my first attempt to read the Bible, saw right away how horrible it was.  (I have to wonder if the people who converted from one of the three monotheisms to another read all three holy books and noticed the many similarities.)

My concern would be that the denominations of Christianity that are concerned with getting more converts due to their belief that everyone else will go to Hell aren’t the ones that would be a great improvement if Muslims converted to them.  Meanwhile, the denominations that are the nicer ones probably wouldn’t be the ones obsessed with converting people, since they think God loves everyone.  So, we end up with a paradox that the Christian denominations we (or at least I) would not want people to join are the ones actively seeking converts (via manipulation and lies).

I tend to agree with previous people who commented saying that secularism is what improved Christianity.  Christianity by itself doesn’t have very much to recommend it.

Anway, thank very much for the review!  I look forward to reading her book and learning more about her experiences and education!  Despite my disagreement on this point, I think Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a great role model; she show a lot of bravery and strength in the face of danger, and I’m so glad that she is speaking up about the problems of Islam.  We need more people like her who can show that a secular society is much better than a theocratic one.  I hope that people like her will encourage more former Muslims and even more moderate Muslims to speak out against the tragedies going on in the world today.

[About a month after Mehta’s entry about Ali’s Nomad, Adam Lee also posted an entry about the same book and Ali’s suggestion that secular people and Christians should form a strategic alliance.[4]  The following are some comments I wrote on that entry.]

Comment #2 (2 August 2010 at 8:02 pm)

I’m looking forward to reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Nomad.  I’ve read some of Infidel so far, and I think she’s a really braver person for standing up as she does.

Personally, for me, when I left Islam and considered Christianity, I found that I disagreed with it for many of the similar reasons why I disagreed with Islam.  There was no evidence for either of the two religions and, when I tried to read the Bible the first time around, I found right away that I didn’t agree with it any more than I agreed with Islam.

I tend to support promoting the ideas of secularism and equal rights and being allies with any religious people who also believe in these things.  I don’t think it’s such a good idea to be allies with one religion trying to convert another religion, such as being allies with Christians to convert Muslims, because that could lead to one religion gaining too much power and — as you mentioned — abusing that power to discriminate against others.  Even if the goal is to be allies with the nicer, moderate Christians only, it could mean that Christianity as a whole gains too much power and the extremists might abuse that power (even if it wasn’t the original intention of the alliance).[5]

Comment #3 (2 August 2010 at 8:04 pm)

“If we have to choose between moderate religion and fundamentalist religion, then of course, we should choose moderate religion.

But, I actually strongly disagree with AHA on her point about supporting Xian conversions of Muslims.

Who exactly is going to reach out to Muslim immigrants?  I can tell you who – the fundamentalist Xians.  The Mormons and the JWs and the Southern Baptists will be all over that.  1. I’m not sure that much if any improvement. 2. How easy a conversion is that going to be?”  [Edit: This quoted portion was written by Sarah Braasch in Comment #1]

I agree wholeheartedly.  This is exactly my concern as well.  The more extreme denominations are the ones who are more obsessed with converting everyone else, because they think others are going to Hell if they are not members of the “right” religion.[6]

Comment #5 (2 August 2010 at 8:31 pm)

@Ebonmuse (comment 4):

He-he.  You made me smile.  I often find it amusing when extreme members of any faith think they’re going to succeed in converting people by advocating discrimination against them.

Also, I haven’t yet read the book (as I wrote previously) but I’m not sure if I could advocate Catholicism without having a guilty conscience.  I know many Catholics are more accepting of women, the LGBT community, people of other religions, etc. than some fundamentalists, but the Church and its official policies are way too extreme and hateful.[7]

Comment #7 (2 August 2010 at 8:53 pm)

“It’s funny, because, depending on the circumstances, sometimes the hardcores of one religion are the greatest supporters of the hardcores of other religions.”  [Edit: This quoted portion was written by Sarah Braasch in Comment #6]

I’ve noticed that as well, such as when extremists of various religions work together to advocate discrimination against LGBT people.  When my state was considering same-sex marriage (which was eventually defeated) I remember seeing a news report on the televisions showing protestors from both Christianity and Judaism who were opposed to same-sex marriage.

I’ve also seen Christians defending the burqa as a way to be “modest” without admitting that women are often forced to wear it.[8]

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References

[1] Sharmin, Ani.  The content of the ideas should be used to judge them:  a comment.  Posted on 29 December 2011 from The Eternal Bookshelf.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com/2011/12/29/the-content-of-the-ideas-should-be-used-to-judge-them/.

[2] Sharmin, Ani.  Via Friendly Atheist “Interview with Pastor Terry Jones, the Man Behind ‘International Burn A Koran Day’”.  Posted on 24 July 2010 at The Eternal Bookshelf.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/burn-a-koran-day/.

[3] Hemant, Mehta.  Why You Should Read Nomad by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.  Posted on 30 June 2010 at Friendly Atheist.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/06/30/why-you-should-read-nomad-by-ayaan-hirsi-ali/.

[4] Lee, Adam.  Strategically Supporting Religious Charities.  Posted on 2 August 2010 at Daylight Atheism.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://www.daylightatheism.org/2010/08/strategically-supporting-religious-charities.html.

[5] Sharmin, Ani.  Comment #2, posted on 2 August 2010 at 8:02 pm.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://www.daylightatheism.org/2010/08/strategically-supporting-religious-charities.html#comment-58480.

[6] Sharmin, Ani.  Comment #3, posted on 2 August 2010 at 8:04 pm.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://www.daylightatheism.org/2010/08/strategically-supporting-religious-charities.html#comment-58481.

[7] Sharmin, Ani.  Comment #5, posted on 2 August 2010 at 8:31 pm.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://www.daylightatheism.org/2010/08/strategically-supporting-religious-charities.html#comment-58484.

[8] Sharmin, Ani.  Comment #7, posted on 2 August 2010 at 8:53 pm.  Retrieved on 29 December 2011 from http://www.daylightatheism.org/2010/08/strategically-supporting-religious-charities.html#comment-58486.

The content of the ideas should be used to judge them: a comment

I was looking through some of the old comments I’ve written at RichardDawkins.net, and I came across this one.  It was a response to Jerome Taylor and Sarah Morrison’s article The Islamification of Britain:  record numbers embrace Muslim faith, in which there are personal stories of several people who have converted to Islam in the UK.[1]

Comment #84 (5 January 2011 at 3:07 pm)

The fact that people are converting to Islam is something I find interesting, because I personally left the faith. It seems some of the Muslims discussed in the article converted not because they became convinced that the Qur’an was dictated to Mohammad by Allah via the Angel Gabriel, but because they liked some aspect of the lifestyle (e.g. modesty) or wanted some meaning in their lives. This leads me to ask the following: Why not take on the ideas you like without converting? For example, I still don’t drink alcohol and I still dress modestly (though I don’t cover my hair), even though I left Islam. Personally, I wanted to make my own meaning in life, instead of following one prescribed by a religion.

This is just a guess, but I have to wonder how much of this is an example of the grass seeming greener on the other side. The person who left Catholicism Khadijah Roebuck compares Islam with the Church, saying she found peace in Islam, but not in the Church. When I left Islam, I briefly thought that maybe Christianity would be a better option, but then decided against it. I think I was able to see the bad parts of Islam, since I was looking at it from the inside, but got a false good impression from Christianity, since I was looking at it from the outside, with practitioners trying to make the religion look good to outsiders.

I obviously can’t judge from just a few paragraphs on each person, but it seems they’ve done what many people do: follow some aspects of the faith and not others. I think their beliefs are totally wrong; whether or not this is dangerous depends on their actions.

I agree with previous comments who pointed out that it would be a good idea to compare this with how many people are leaving Islam.

@AA (comment #1):

“I still think that immigrants should adopt the culture of the country they choose to move to.”

There isn’t just one culture in any country.

It’s always bothered me when people refer to immigrants (and children of immigrants, like myself) as having become “Westernized” or “Americanized” as if ideas like freedom, equal rights, etc. are somehow the property of one country, instead of a good idea for everyone. I adopted those ideas because they’re good ideas, not just to go along with what country I’m living in.

I think all cultures should be subject to criticism to remove the bad parts and keep the good, and that people should be able to choose for themselves which ideas they want to follow (provided they’re not harming others). The content of the ideas should be used to judge them, and we shouldn’t just go along with whatever the majority is doing if the majority is wrong.[2]

I want to expand upon the part where I wrote, “I think I was able to see the bad parts of Islam, since I was looking at it from the inside, but got a false good impression from Christianity, since I was looking at it from the outside, with practitioners trying to make the religion look good to outsiders.”

Clearly, there are times when being on the inside actually makes one less likely to see the problems within an ideology or institution.  I think I was able to see the bad parts of Islam because I had the opportunity compare the religious ideas with the ideas of equal rights and secularism; I could see the differences and knew that Islam was not the only or best option.  While being on the inside, I could see the ways in which my life would be negatively affected and limited if I stayed in the religion.

Meanwhile, Christianity seemed like a viable religion because I had gotten a vague but generally decent picture of it due to its portrayal in our society and culture, with moderate religious people saying that the extremists were not practicing the religion accurately.  Ironically, though I was (and am) looking at Christianity from the outside, I was (and am) living in a country where Christianity is in the majority, so I was getting a generally positive message about the religion from my surroundings.

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References

[1] Taylor, Jerome and Morrison, Sarah.  The Islamification of Britain:  record numbers embrace Muslim faith.  Posted on 4 January 2011 at The Independent.  Retrieved on 23 December 2011 from http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-islamification-of-britain-record-numbers-embrace-muslim-faith-2175178.html.

[2] Sharmin, Ani.  Comment #84, posted at 3:07 pm on 5 January 2011.  Retrieved on 22 December 2011 from http://richarddawkins.net/comments/573796.